Some Modification

Hi K. R G. and all,

Here are my points:

1. I would reiterate my recommendation in my previous after-survey post that the Navs Leadership will consider all the issues raised in the survey as long as said issues will help build the kingdom/community, regardless of whether the survey result has a significant representation or not. We will treat the survey as a formal/written request in a "suggestion box."

2. On Newsletter:

We will never undermine the power of our newsletter to connect and stay updated as partners or as members of the family. However, I find your proposed strategy too complicated and therefore would require too much work. Here's my modification/ addendum:

a. quarterly/bi- annual newsletter/update (simple narrative in the dialect will do) from each staff and can be posted thru the internet: via website,e-group like the cebunavs,or simple e-mail.

b. bi-annual/yearly newsletter from the Central Navs. This will require a core group (the way you suggested) to handle the work or maybe can be an add-on to an existing paid administrative staff but will be edited by those who can volunteer from the leaders, ministry staff or somebody like Au. To save resources, have a printed version only for a limited few and use the internet service for the greater circulation (this is what our church is doing). I myself wouldn't need a printed copy. If we do this, maybe we don't need to solicit more funds and instead reserve those resources for other use in the future.

I was wondering why the core group (to handle the newsletter) you suggested will be based in Cebu and not Manila, if this has to be a national Navs endeavor.

I will help in whatever way I can, nasugdan na man gyod ni nato ug apil-apil (he,he,he!)

Thanks for bringing this matter up (the newsletter),
Lani Gador-Johnson

Recommendation from one of the alumni

I felt everything is hanging by the gasp of wind, and oxy and others, haven't responded positively. It is but imperative for us to do a bit move in here, so as not to burst and gone the findings in vain,.. Lest, it shall vanish in thin air, as how oxy puts it.

Please find herein, a painstaking motive of recommendation/suggestion in order to put my simple analysis into motion:

1. Establishment of a Newsletter for worldwide circulation to be based in CebuNavs entered as first class mail duly maintained by the CebuNavs at head Office in Cebu City.

1.a- Identify people as a core, to put up an initial Fund for its establishment, the likes of ruby, joy morris, jekjek, lani, jun palad, rey noynay, mabel, and other members of the e-group maybe are willing to help with this endeavour.

1.b- Identify people from the base in Cebu to compose as the interim editorial board and panel of officials in managing the paper. Consider both professionals and students alike, to qualify for such matter. Expertise, such as paper printing, paper lay outing, news gathering, feature writing, picture embedding, circulation, marketing and other relevant works can easily be learned as I believe in the cebuano way of learning.You can be the right person to pen point who's who from the cebunavs at this very juncture, by personal contact with them through the internet. I may join you in this regard, to act us the initiatory board of consultants, ( galot kaayo hehe), the both of us, and others as well, just to expedite everything and put this plan into concrete status.

1.c- Let the interim officers in 1.b above, quantify the capital and frame up a simple statement of cash flow, as an initial support to the necessary funds.

1.d- Let the core in 1.a above, know as to the entire amount in money necessary for the proposed outlay. You can write or inform them through this internet communication.

2. Establishment of a data base for the location and whereabouts of the alumni. This newsletter will be sent to them free of charge and it is the most appropriate way in linking them the support needed.

3. The proposed circulation of a Newsletter has in itself a twofold purpose:

3.a- To be able to generate sustainable funds for the programs and projects identifiable by the leadership of the cebunavs. Funds maybe coming in through sponsorship by various G.Os and N.G.Os or any private entity who would want to advertise in the proposed Newsletter.

3.b- and as a source of information for the alumni, and by virtue of which, they would be encouraged to give support in return.

4. The proposed Newsletter is to be circulated on a monthly term, so as to afford greater leeway for its preparation, lay outing, marketing and mailing.

5. The effort of the initiatory board or panel of officials should be properly compensated so as to motivate them in making and maintaining the proposed circulation. Their salaries or commissions maybe included in the initial outlay. They will also be earning flat base as their salaries or commission from the ensuing sponsorship from advertisers, as the Newsletter is in progress.

Let there be exchanges of ideas on this regard, and may this recommendation/suggestion be fairly considered by you and the leadership of PhilNavs. It still has its long way going, nevertheless , dreaming is the very step in its making.

Again , let's do something ,.. Lest, everything shall vanish in thin air.. as oxy puts it.. hehe( wala pa gihapon baw-i kon kinsa ni sya?)

Venric's Analysis of the Results

This is a random analysis of the survey as a response to oxy's out of manja:

A N A L Y S I S

Prime dependent variables of the survey: The analysis is outrightly derived from among the three (3) important dependent variables: the PhilNavs, its staff and the issue on finances.

Constraints of the survey: The only independent variable in the survey is the qualification of being a member of the cebunavs who would be acting collectively in capacity as core and active Navs alumni members . This collective and qualified group of members as respondents, aside, they are particular members of the e-group. However, no exact reference as to their gender, age, ministry of involvement, profession , present status in life, and others relevant, have been taken into account , where the resulting perception could be fairly well attributed as bases of comparison and correlations in arriving at a better or vivid conclusion. Hence, the formulation of the succeeding hypothesis is primarily limited on how this independent variable react to the various questions at hand. Its corresponding analysis by far is random, which means that it is primarily based upon the direct result of the survey, without reference to any previous research or literature and the current statistically defined formulas.

Types of Analysis used: Statistical analysis is used , which often designed to demonstrate cause and effect that shows correlation between variables. In some other aspects of the survey choices, descriptive impression is offered in detail, identifying the vantage view where the dependent variables are focused.

Objective or hypothesis of the survey: Among twenty eight (28) active alumni members of the Cebu Navs, there is a direct relationship between connectivity and ability to give support to the organization.

ANALYSIS PROPER:

A. CONNECTIVITY

Connectivity is an aspect in the life of a member where one is never by any chance deprived of knowledge and awareness to the affairs and programs of an organization. As far as the Navs organization is concerned, thirty seven (37%) of the respondents has stated that their involvement is continuous even if they stay out of the ministry area. Such figure is roughly motivating but inspiring, as only about a little over twenty two (22%) have depicted for their continuity though staying within or close to a ministry area. Notwithstanding, there are still those alumni(25.9%), who are not directly involved by reason of least proximity to a ministry area, which any of the staff or perhaps the leadership should find means in reaching out for them. Thirty six (36%) of the respondents says that any of the Navs staffs has contacted them often, when they went somewhere, but this act has to be honed by the former as the other batch of thirty six (36%) as well says, they are rarely pursued.

At the instance of the respondents itself, fourty (48%) declares that they are never disconnected with the Navs. This result is mainly due to the fact that sixty(67%) of them is involved with the Navs for over ten(10) years. Among the many activities outlined by the ministry, attendance to fellowships (88%), doing any scriptural disciplines (84.6%), participation to conferences and trainings (80.8%) , leading bible studies and witnessing (76..9%) have given support to the virtue of involvement and connectivity.

On the part of the key staffs, ninety one (91%) of the respondents reflects, that the staffs are really called by God, sixty five(65%) says, that they are good example of character and faith and seventy eight (78%) points, that they are sincere of their love to people and the ministry. These findings have shown encouragement to the alumni to consider themselves always a part of the organization.

All of the above results has substantiated into a positive degree of connectivity and close familiarity with the structure and programs of the organization.

B. ART OF GIVING

Seventy five(75%) of the respondents has defined giving as an act of providing monetary support to the programs and projects of the organization, which is led by God. The respondents also have found satisfaction and stature in their involvement,

where sixty two (62%) has the belief on what the PhilNavs is doing. Nevertheless, twenty two (22%) has opined that they are not properly informed of the priorities of the organization and thus, are logically hesitant to give. Also, twenty two (22%) identifies such factor of their being disconnected to any of the Navwork and sixteen(16%) pushes for less transparency by the Navs officials with regards to its finances as formal factors to consider why alumni members are not efficient and effective in the art of giving to the organization.

Sixty five (65%) has suggested, that the present giving has to be done regularly and it shall be performed unconditionally, and to be given to the staff that has personal relationship with the giver. To bolster up the analysis, seventy (70%) of the respondents has outlined in their choices, that in effectively practicing the virtue of giving, partnership between the Navs organization and the concerned donors has to be firmly established, and that the latter has to be informed on what actually has happened to the support given.

The same true with the aspect on connectivity, that the art and virtue of giving can only be practiced, efficiently and effectively, unless, a continuous and direct knowledge , where vast room of transparency as well as eager informations, re: the affairs and programs of the organization , are catered unto anyone, who may have the full capability to give as potential donors for the organization.

CONCLUSION

Riding on the simple merits of the above analysis, it can be randomly deduced that there exist a direct relationship and correlation between connectivity and ability to give financial support, where substantial informations such as , the specified vision-mission, directions, supports: whether effective or not, structure , programs or in general, the affairs of the PhilNavs as a ministry and organization, sizing up, for the purpose of establishing and maintaining the support due it.

How about pursuing a healthy, financially sustainable project

Dear oxy,

I just love having you as my family..you could be a distant relative or an identical twin but sure I need you for a reason.hehe You know me very well through these exchanges, but I don't know your real identity, so let it be:)

I thought of asking for second membership to be identified as Nitro Genius, but my thoughts are far off to warrant as such and in fact, they are at the other side of the spectrum.

Here are my worthless thoughts, again. Please, bear with me..

The survey that was done is just one of the tools. The respondents don't have to know the real reason, purpose or hidden agenda but everybody had an idea of why it was done. It took only few minutes to answer that survey. Was it really too much of our time? The framers spent a lot of time and effort to make it and they did it with all good intentions for a reason. To R.G. and all who helped, thank you very much!! God bless you!!

BTW, few months ago, I was asked to respond a survey that requires at least a good hour to answer all the questions. I thought I just did it to express my opinion for reveal.com/church, but after I finished answering the questions, I felt I just did a thorough inventory of not only my being a believer but as a person. Not bad at all for an hour+ spent:) in fact, I was blessed!

I thought doing a survey (anonymous) is a good thing because there are some of us I found out, who are just like you, afraid to be misunderstood but have great ideas and valid concerns. There is also a risk of being sneered upon when you tend to think outside the box. So, that is the safe way of drawing people's ideas. Remember? Only a few (Au, Ai and Lani) said something openly.

You are so right about the interpretation of the results and the guidelines/validity of a good survey/research.

But, are we trying to be legalistic here?? or are we trying to help in whatever way we could approach the problem? Just as we are to be careful in making judgment and conclusion of the survey, aren't we suppose to cover all the parties involved in the scenario? Don't we need to challenge parts of the status quo that may be contributors to the issue?

So, here we go..in a form of questions..awat ko nimo..

What is the role of the leadership??

What is the role of the staffs??

What is the role of the alumni? the students? the donors/partners?

Yes, we need to challenge the alumni to take more active role and support. But, aren't we going to address the issue why we are not very good in giving as what R.G. mentioned? or what prevent us from being so? How do we know of each one's views if they are just like you.. afraid to be misunderstood or afraid to risk their own identity? Don't we have the responsibility to minister to them first before we reach out to others?

Through this, I could see why being prayer partners and have a deeper interpersonal relationship are important.

Kanang survey is intended for those who are curious (heheh) and for the staff and leadership to look at and interpret the way they want to. They should not negate the minority votes cause they could be critical to leading and serving with utmost sensitivity and considerations. Pero, as requested nimo oxy, morag gana na jud na si Rene ug Venric mo-interpret at their own risk!

Also, in how God allow things to happen beyond everybody's logic.. and for events to happen in an extraordinary way.. surely, there are some exceptions beyond our comprehension! As somebody always says..Only God knows!

oops, oxy, ato ra ni..you think this could also be something for Bobot?:)) heheh joke ra ni ha..

I am watching Pres. Obama's answer to the G-20 press conference here at this very moment..it caught my attention.. he just mentioned the common sense aspect:) in approaching the economic crisis. then he went on.. I will be judged in my effectiveness of my leadership.. then he went on.. he also mistrust polls..heheh (this reminds me of using polls if it is in your advantage and not trust it when it is not in your favor hahah) then he is forcing partnership. . bingo if this is really what we want:)) then he went on..whatever is easier negotiation. . on terrorism and poverty tied in huh? how about his word "sustainable" ??

Well, just got sidetracked here.. heheh

That is my take of the survey, I will leave the rest to others and

now..

Just because miracles happened..do we have to wait when something comes up to solve some systemic problem?

Didn't God give us logic? or common sense? How about common goal?? How about pursuing a healthy, financially sustainable project where everybody can contribute by using our God-given unique gifts while improving/deepening our interpersonal relationships? This would mean identifying those who have the gift of leadership and those knowledgeable in business/investment to take lead in the business venture and in your word..to make a good business case. NA.. buhat na pud ta ani ug another survey ha??heheh or have a session in identifying our top 3 spiritual gifts:)

well, taas na man pud ni..

Now you know why I like having an oxy in my family:)

Bitaw, I love my name so much!!hehe

Ruby.

Summary Please

Dear to all,

I notice, that the number of respondents is quite low , I wonder if the number represent the whole, because the web is a powerful tool to connect people... the survey has a lot of stuff,

maybe to some is not appealing..just a though,

The coordinator should summarize the result including conclusion, and recommendation. ..so that it will be very easy to respond from readers who would like to give their opinion.

Soli Dei Gloria,

K. Omar

By the time, na-outlined na ilang action, patay na ang tabangonon!

Hi Oxy and All,

I can see why you used "alias" kay there's a risk in everything man gyod for us to be misinterpreted or misunderstood, no matter how valid our points are. And oftentimes, being blunt is the best way to go so that your message will make a hit.

I buy your points esp in this latest email. Pls. take note: those who worked hard for the survey, I appreciate your work.

Here's my side of the story. When we were discussing and planning to present our issues thru a survey result, ako dayong comment, "Nah, magsurvey pa sila." Don't get me wrong, I participated in the survey and even gave comments on the voice out box. But why did I say this? What came to my mind man gud is a favorite scenario among gov't employees ( I was once a gov't. employee) nga naa na'y masakiton nangayo ug tabang, ang action nila nag-meeting and series of meetings. By the time, na-outlined na ilang action, patay na ang tabangonon! I may be exaggerating, but there's some good analogy if we do this in a Christian community. In addition pud sa kang Oxy, remember the story about a man who threw back the starfishes to the ocean?

Now, considering the scenario of the survey results and in addition to what Oxy presented, what if only the 3 of us (Ai,Au & myself kay kami ra man pud ni verbalize) felt strongly for the personal connection bet. the donors (actually the Navs themselves call them ministry partners) and the staff, what will happen to our concern?

I hope the Navs leadership will give a thorough consideration for all the issues presented, that is regardless of the statistical results, as long as the issues are valid and would help build the community and the kingdom. Kumbaga, treat the survey as an indication of what should be done, whether it has a significant representation or not.

Again, I appreciate those who participated in the survey. To the framers of the survey, you were also doing what you think is best. Let me borrow Pres. Obama's statement,"Let the perfect not be the enemy of the essential."

Thank you also Oxy for calling our attention to the essential. Pero mora'g insakto gyod kos akong tagna bahin nimo, he,he,he!

Lani Gador-Johnson

Where is the Statistics Here?

My dear sisters and brothers,

It was not my intention to get a single ray of limelight. Lest I'll be hit with

lightning and vanish in thin air.

Since the survey results are out to which I participated in obedience to RG's

call, I would like to manja with our boys like Venric or Rene if they would like

to put some explanation on the significance of the results.

Mga kuya, before you say something, can I make some senseless thoughts in a form

of questions please?

First, there are less than 200 members in this group and only about 20 something

participated. From the statistical point of view, does the outcome make sense? Do they

represent the whole group? In my little brain-nut as Mely puts it, if this were a project

or a thesis, I would challenge the results and make questions on the process by which the

survey was made. I'm sorry RG but why was the survey in a hurry? Some of our family

members who only open their mail twice a month will not have a chance to voice out I guess.

From a simple illustration, I cannot be represented by my hand nor my feet on this results.

Of course, you would say that I was a good representation. Of those who participated

or the whole group?

Honestly mga Kuyas, I have difficulty appreciating surveys in the christian context because

a.) When Abraham negotiated for Lot when God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha,

did God used statistic? I think God looks at individual and not trends and medians.

Or maybe yes, because everyone was evil God destroyed them.

b.) When Jesus used the parable of the lost sheep, did he not said " Will he not leave

the 99 and loook for the lost sheep, and when He finds it, he will rejoice in it"?

Where is statistics here?

c.) There are about 2 members of the group who are consistently inclined to be negative

on their responses, shall the Nav leadership brush them off because its not what the majority feels?

Of course not!, they would try to reach out to everyone.

d.) Had the christian organization not so distant past stopped sending missionaries to

Solomon Islands and Papua New Guinea because they were eaten alive and that in more

than 5 years no one had been converted to christianity, would we hear a single soul being

saved today in those countries? Where is statistics?

e.) If RG will not find Amir in their search for 3 or 4 years and that their family friends will

not embrace Jesus, shall we remove our support to their endeavours because based on statistics

they have not done their jobs?

f.) I think some in the ulay division will really appreciate your comments.

I still have other thoughts but I think we all have enough in our plates.

Take your time Kuya. And thank you for giving me life in here. I might stay a little longer.

On a ligheter side, I think some ideas are brewing when Ruby shared somethin like

paid...staff, ...fund raising... and Edd also mentioned about funds,... management.. .

needy staff... Could anyone make a good business case on this? This should be a good

outcome of the survey.

Thanks Ruby and Mely. Its nice to be welcomed. And Lani, impressions does not

hold in statistics either he he he he. Sungit ano?

Daghan salamat,

Oxy

You've Put the Words of What is in My Heart

Mga Igsoon ko,
Gatulo akong luha in reading your emails today.
Firstly, thank you very much Ren for losening up and openning up. Honestly I dreaded the scenario that I will be push to choose to delete anyone in this egroup.. So I was really praying hard that love, tolerance, acceptance and embracing oneanother would prevail even if we have different preferences. .. Thank you too for your advice. BTW we are in Bangladesh not in Cambodia. But please do not let me stop thinking and praying for our root, figuratively, I will die if I would be disconnected with you people (hehehehe).. We doing fine in our adjustment, although we have to really burn candles in our language study. Its really difficult, they said Bangla is the next hardest language next to Chinese. We are also getting meaningful frienships with some locals.
Rub, you've put the words of what is in my heart...haay tulo na pud ako luha. How I desire to to see our CebuNavs community what you have seen in Acts, and what the Moravian C did a century ago. Yes all did their part to advance the Kingdom accoding to the role that God gave them. They go to place in group, some doing business some working and some and handling the Word but they as a community is creating an impact hard to resist by the locals becuase of the life the've shown as a loving community. This is actually the heart of vision of the Navs today.
Now how do we apply this in Cebu Navs community? We have a base Min. in Cebu and we are all scattered all over the world? I think what you are sharing now could be the answer.. Mga Igsoon, God is so gacious to us that He would open our eyes to the opportunity to be partners with Him. He blessed with people who can do fulltime min work. 40% of the fulltime Navs Staff are form CebuNavs, and 83% who left the Phils as Navs and went overseas with Missi... in mind .. are also form Cebu. I think we are beginning to see that He has also blessed many of us the capacity to earn not only for ourselves but most of all, to be His partners in the furtherance of His Kingdom. At the end of the day mga igsoon ko, its not how high we have climb the ladder of success that will give us "Life" but its the King and giving ourselves to the furtherance of His Kingdom that will. Our King has promised us that He came to give us Life and have it abundantly.. .As a community let's start living abundantly by being consumed with Him and His Kingdom..
Lastly di gyud ko maimutang kung di ko makaappreciate sa mga tirada ni Bay Venric... lupig pay abogado ug mga philosophers of the past.... Saludo na pod ko bay venric..

The Acts 2 Model

First, I would like to take the chance to send my greetings to Oxy, especially kon ulay man pud diay ka as you are so candid:) Seems like you'll be with us forever kay si Rene ni submit na man:)

Abi nimo R.G. naa na jud koy gisulat few weeks ago when I woke up one day, clear kaayo akong mind and I rushed to type them in pero wa nako ma send and at the end of the day I accidentally close it without saving. I just couldn't retrieve the thoughts and could not replay the moment. what a waste!

awat ko ani ni oxy..below are my worthless thoughts on the finance issue at this point..

Bahin sa pangutana ni Oxy kon asa ang mga staff in the survey preparation. .maybe somebody else has to answer her kay wa gani ko kabalo nga kini si R.G.. dili man diay staff:).

However, as to the objective of the survey.. I mentioned having a survey or something to base our future/immediate engagement to this issue. That was because of R.G.'s comment not only once in this egroup but the last time noted was on the 27th of February he wrote..

".. I think we from Cebu navs, God has raised many committed workers, working full-time in the ministry and willing to risk to mission fields both locally and overseas, but we are also not very good in terms of giving... "

I took the first part of the phrase as a compliment/strength worthy of praises to the Lord. The second part is somehow expected as a weakness that needs to be addressed through the survey. Based on the result, the last 2 questions are critical.. it shows that givers appreciate the sincerity of the partnership as not only when the person is actively supporting financially but as prayer partners first. The giving plan is generally based on the need seen and the personal relationship. I hope the survey will give the staffs and leadership some ideas in what really matters to donors and how the donors appropriate their giving.

I am aware that this will not be easy because the Navs has its own structure and ways of running the ministry. However, if we and the leadership are open to the alumni's or outsiders' (not a staff) ideas of running our local affairs i.e. cebunavs then we in this egroup could step in and take care of our own concerns as a group.

As Edd suggested, we can set up a Local Investment Fund to support needy staffs and other emergency concerns. And I agree that it should have to be managed well and have transparency in how it is being appropriated. . Based on what I learned from this exchange.. I could say, it doesn't make sense and not morally right to see a staff hardly surviving. How could we let this go on??

On the other hand, it is not enough to ask people to give or criticize them for not giving or for giving reasons not to give. I believe this is a group of generous people. In fact, we need to celebrate that cebunavs is on target of what the ministry is all about.. raising committed laborers for His harvest!!

The Acts 2 model of believers working together is worth emulating. Each one of us in this egroup is an asset to the ministry with unique set of gifts. Some may not have cash but have time. Some may not have the luxury of time but have a special talent or have a great network connection. Anyway, there's a lot of potentials this egroup is sitting on and we could utilize them. Each one's contribution to the Kingdom is valuable in God's economy. We just need creativity and teamwork to turn this into a tangible outcome.

My out of the box idea is to have a paid staff to relieve the burden of fund raising. At least a base/living allowance! This in turn will encourage new graduates to continue serving the ministry while waiting or looking for a job considering they don't have the experience to raise funds. But, there should be a different criteria for the paid from the unpaid.

Another avenue is to expand the carenderia investment that was started already or some sort of business venture that everybody could take part.

uyy, taas na man..

Blessings to all of you,

Ruby

Suggested Application

Hi,

I would like to congratulate Amir and the rest of the family for putting up a good
survey on the issue of finances. I just made my vote and I can imagine the efforts
you put into it. Well Done Guys!

Siguro, dunay actions nga atong buhaton pag-abot sa resulta. Kay kung ang atong
buhaton igo ra sa pag-hatag sa resulta didto sa kaulohan, murag kulang siguro ang
atong paningkamot. Akong sugyot nga maghimo ta ug general fund where alumni can
make deposits then we will manage that fund and appropriate the money to the needy
staff. Kinahanglan lang ug maayong management siguro.. Sugyot lang ni.

Bahin kang Ms Oxy, akong ma picture nga mura tag mga hamtong nga mga
batan-on nga nagdula ug soccer (foot ball sa Europe) sa usa ka playing field.
Lingaw kaayo ta, siging katawa, dagan ug ang uban namo-mo kay napandol.

Unya sa takulahaw lamang, miabot ang bag-ong silingan nga nagdalag bula kay
gusto mo-apil sa dula. Ang naka apan lang kay lain nga bola iyang gidala - oblong
para sa rugby. Lain-lain ang reaction sa mga nag-dula. Ang uban sa atoa dili dayon
paapilon si Oxy. Ang uban lain sab ug tinan-awan. Walay nangutana kung dis-a
siya gikan ug nganong oblong iyang bola. Unsa kahay maayong sipaon ang
oblong o lingin nga bola? Ako kay medyo gulang naman, gamay na akong bola,
golf balls na lang he he he he.

Para sa akoa, ako siyang pangutan-on "where do you come from with your thoughts"?
Are you worth my attention?

Siguro kung babae ni siya, ulay kay murag candid man matod pa ni Venric. Kung lalake,
tawagaon ko nalang ni siyang Mr. Moron. Heh he he he he he.

Ayaw kasuko Oxy ha? Basig ipa barang ko nimo? Daghan ra kag kaila matud pa ni Amir.

Regards,

Edd